Norm!! So you've finally decided to introduce yourself! I'm so pleased to make your acquaintance.
So responding to what you said "how can a terrorist organization laying down its arms' not be a solution?" Yes, both sides (I don't know which you call the terrorist organization--Israel or Hizbollah, depending on who you talk to, they both fit that definition). But if both sides lay down their arms, then yes, it would be a solution.
I said that I wasn't sure if Hizbollah would lay down their arms. I haven't seen the details of the plan, so I am wondering if it would be acceptable to Hizbollah. But I did hear that Hassan Nasrallah was accepting it. All that remains to be seen.
I am happy and hopeful, as are many of my friends in Lebanon who I spoke to on the phone today.
If you like to defend Israel so much, can I call you a "terrorist sympathizer"?
Both groups are legitimate political organizaitons that provide social as well as military services to their populations, defending them against aggressors.
They are BOTH at fault in this war. And unfortunately, both sides are suffering, along with the Lebanese people caught in the middle.
I don't know why you say I am biased? If you are so concerned about innocent civilians who have been killed? Who has killed more? Israel or Hizballah? Not that it should matter. Both sides have committed atrocities.
Are you looking at the BBC, AFP, or God forbid--The Daily Star, Al Jazeera, Nahar Net, Haaretz, or anything else coming out of the Middle East?
Hire reporters to launch smear campaigns?? So you're saying that the atrocities in Lebanon aren't true?? That all those photos are doctored. That innocent people haven't died, and that they're not using illegal chemical and uranium weapons which is eroding tissue that my friends have testified to seeing?
Where are you getting your information from, Norm? And why do you feel you have to defend one side so strongly? Again, I will hold both offenders--Israel and Hizbollah--need to be held accountable. If I come off as sympathizing towards Hizbollah, it's making up for what I see is a bias and major lack of basic information that the American public isn't getting.
3 comments:
I bet these people are sane and normal people right? 'It's a different culture, you can't judge! Maybe murdering someone in a public square then having a crowd cheer it then deface his dead body and take pictures of it and have a woman stand on the dead man's throat is normal in their culture? Different cultures, mannnnn, can't judge!' Is that about the jist of what your response is probably going to be?
Those people are the same people you think are innocent. Those people are the same people you say are being oppressed by the zionists.
"Both groups are legitimate political organizaitons that provide social as well as military services to their populations, defending them against aggressors."
Hezbollah is NOT a legitimate political organization. They have no authority to reign over southern lebanon. If they WERE a legitimate political organization in Lebanon, then Israel would declare war on Lebanon not Hezbollah. Also, is firing artillery from CIVILIAN LOCATIONS so that the Israelis are FORCED to blow those spots up supporting the people? Does a legitimate organization hide behind UN medics to launch rockets, as well? Does a legitimate political organization launch a war that will inevitably kill civilians in order to have a cock measuring contest with the supreme military of the middle east?
"Hire reporters to launch smear campaigns?? So you're saying that the atrocities in Lebanon aren't true??"
Yes. I am saying that. Maybe if YOU followed the news, like you said I should, then you would KNOW that photos were altered and made up. But, alas, your bias ruins you. For example, the countless photos of photographers putting toys at the footsteps of rubble to try to pretend it was actually like that for propoganda purposes. How about the case where a girl was injured playing soccer, and the media captioned the photo saying the girl was hit in an Israeli airstrike? How about Adnan Hajj photoshopping images to make things look worse for PROPOGANDA purposes? Look it up. Eh, you won't, you're biased, and a terrorist sympathizer. You don't care about the truth.
"If I come off as sympathizing towards Hizbollah, it's making up for what I see is a bias and major lack of basic information that the American public isn't getting."
Refer to my previous examples (a few of many) to show how the media is spreading endless propoganda to support your terrorist allies.
Want to know why I defend Israel? Because Israel doesn't use civilians as shields. Israel drops leaflets WARNING people to leave before they bomb places (knowing that doing so is a strategic disadvantage). Israel doesn't launch rockets wildly into the middle of civilian areas in order to get to Hezbollah. Israel doesn't launch rockets from civilian's homes. Israel is defending itself from terrorists that are destroying two nations.
I don't know which you call the terrorist organization--Israel or Hizbollah, depending on who you talk to, they both fit that definition
What happened to rejecting the concept of terrorist as not productive?
What you've said is false - but I feel uneasy about arguing over semantics when so many people have died. Still, you seem to perceive a parity between the state of Israel and Hezbollah that doesn't exist. So maybe it's important.
It is inaccurate that both Israel and Hezbollah fit the definition of terrorist - but that doesn't mean that one is "better" than the other. To my understanding, a terrorist organization is one which, among other things, operates at least partially independently of the state. "Terrorists" are civilians combatants. Israel is not a political organization, legitimate or otherwise. It is a state.
That's why this:
But if both sides lay down their arms, then yes, it would be a solution.
is definitely not a solution. Surely you're not suggesting that the state of Israel disarm (or the state of Lebanon, for that matter). Civilian elements, on the other hand, could be compelled to disarm.
Hezbollah is more than welcome to continue acting as a socio-political group which provides much needed services to the people of south Lebanon. They are not more than welcome to continue shooting rockets into Israeli houses. Nor, of course, has Israel carte blanche to attack Lebanon, particularly areas with heavy civilian populations.
I tend to agree with 'anonymous' here, and think that Norm's epithets are not particularly productive. To use an old cliche, for a war, there must be at least two parties, and for peace, there must be many more. Here's a link to some of the 'fabrications' that Norm is referring to, which suggests that not only the US media, but many other outlets, are 'biased': http://www.zombietime.com/reuters_photo_fraud/
But while there certainly have been exaggerations and distortions of 'truth,' this doesn't make either side 'innocent,' nor does it absolve the damage done. Both are using a rhetoric of victimhood, that they are 'being forced to kill' or 'forced to fight.'
Too many lives and limbs have been lost, as have so many children's and others' innocence, if they can be said to have experienced innocence in the first place. This war has only created more hatred and suffering, in the name of what?
What I wonder, often, is if Hizbollah is so dedicated to the welfare of its people - or Lebanon for that matter - why haven't they built bomb shelters and other facilities, as has Israel, for its civilians? Why not invest more in protecting lives, rather than in buying, hiding, and launching arms that cause maximum pain, damage and destruction?
Is it useful for either side to parade around as the strong man in town and provoke already very hot tempers? Is it helpful to spit in each other's eyes, and worse, on these blogs, and metaphorically on national (or not yet national) scales? If for people at a physical distance it's so easy to get emotional and vituperative about these issues, about the people we care about and love, or about humans, because they are all after all humans, imagine what it's like on the ground, and the damage done to all for generations. And when I say this, I do not mean to be sanctimonious, even though it may be how it sounds. -MS
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