18 Israel and Jerusalem Facts: Wally's old post

These facts that Wally sent me are in all caps. My response comes after each of them. I basically went to Wikipedia to confirm stuff I knew. I would invite anybody with some good evidence and arguments to jump in here.

Many of these "facts" are just not true. Wally put these at the end of a post where the Israeli Prime Minister was defending his actions in Lebanon. I don't see how any of these are a defense, or answer to any of the arguments I or the Arab World has leveled against Israel's human rights violations.

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1. ISRAEL BECAME A STATE IN 1312 B.C., TWO MILLENNIA BEFORE ISLAM;

Are you saying that Arab or Palestinian=Muslim?? Many Palestinians are Christians. And the majority of Palestinians who have been in the U.S. for many generations are Christians.

Does this not mean that other groups of people lived in Palestine before the 12 tribes of Israel settled there around 1312 BCE? God told Moses he would bring him "into the land of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites--a land flowng with milk and honey" (Exodus 3:17). Now, I'm not going to say that the modern-day Arabs are descendents of these groups.

There is much historical debate as to whether today's Arabs can be traced back to these groups. It's a muddled and kind of silly project--of course, people have mixed and moved over all these millinia. But have their been non-Israeli people there since before the 12 tribes of Israel setteled there? Of course. Are these the ancestors of today's Palestinians? That's a trickier question.

2. ARAB REFUGEES FROM ISRAEL BEGAN CALLING THEMSELVES "PALESTINIANS" IN 1967, TWO DECADES AFTER (MODERN) ISRAELI STATEHOOD;

Semantics? The politics of identity? The words "Palestine" and "Israel". Even today, different groups of people use these same words to mean the same thing and different things. Arabs don't call the region Israel, they call it Palestine. In the U.S., many people say Palestine refers specifically to the West Bank and Gaza. These names are very political, and people use them differently in all kinds of contexts.

Am I Latina, Hispanic (not Herspanic), or white, or Anglo? People use different words to refer to the same thing, and they all have political connotations and baggage? Of course, in 1967, the territories were occupied, so people decided to take on a new name to reflect their new political and social situation. So? When did Americans start calling themselves Americans, and not British? It has something to do with the Revolutionary War. Were they still the same people?

3. AFTER CONQUERING THE LAND IN 1272 B.C., JEWS RULED IT FOR A THOUSAND YEARS AND MAINTAINED A CONTINUOUS PRESENCE THERE FOR 3,300 YEARS;

The Romans burned down Solomon's temple and destroyed Rome in 70 CE. My World History textbook said that these Roman persecutions led to the Jewish diaspora that started around 150 CE. That was when Jewish people started settling in Europe. That's why they started coming back in the late-ninteenth century with the Zionist movement.

4. THE ONLY ARAB RULE FOLLOWING CONQUEST IN 633 B.C. LASTED JUST 22 YEARS;

So then who did the Franks conquer Jerusalem from in the First Crusade in 1099? Wasn't it the infidels?
"Further east, Anatolia, Syria, Palestine, and Egypt were all under Muslim control" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_crusade#The_East_in_the_late_eleventh_century

5. FOR OVER 3,300 YEARS, JERUSALEM WAS THE J EWISH CAPITAL. IT WAS NEVER THE CAPITAL OF ANY ARAB OR MUSLIM ENTITY. EVEN UNDER JORDANIAN RULE, (EAST) JERUSALEM WAS NOT MADE THE CAPITAL, AND NO ARAB LEADER CAME TO VISIT IT;

"The Fatimids, at this time ruled by caliph al-Musta'li (although all actual power was held by the vizier al-Afdal Shahanshah), had lost Jerusalem to the Seljuks in 1076, but recaptured it from the Ortoqids in 1098 while the crusaders were on the march." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_crusade#The_East_in_the_late_eleventh_century

6. JERUSALEM IS MENTIONED OVER 700 TIMES IN THE BIBLE, BUT NOT ONCE IS IT MENTIONED IN THE QUR'AN;

Palestinian=Muslim? This really isn't about religion. I find it bothersome that Westerners like to portray people in the Middle East as somewhat savage, uncivilized, and very irrational because religion plays such a big part in their thinking and leads them to violence.

People aren't any more religious than Americans. And it's probably a similar percentage of the population that uses religion to justify their politics. In fact, in the U.S. it might even be more. (You know, that whole religious right. George W. reads My Utmost For His Highest every morning.)

Again, the media likes to play up this fear that doesn't exist, so the current administration will be justified when it does bad things like go to war and occupy other countries. Making Middle Easterners out to be irrational religious fundamentalists plays into this.

The more the arguments can stay in the realm of politics and history, the better.

7. KING DAVID FOUNDED JERUSALEM; MOHAMMED NEVER SET FOOT IN IT;

Jerusalem is considered the third most holy city in Islam. The Dome of the Rock is considered the place from where the angel Gabriel led Muhammad on a tour of heaven and hell. This is called the night journey.

"Some time in 620, Muhammad told his followers that he had experienced the Isra and Miraj, a miraculous journey said to have been accomplished in one night along with Angel Gabriel. In the first part of the journey, the Isra, he is said to have travelled from Mecca to the furthest mosque, in Jerusalem, presently known as Masjid al Aqsa. In the second part, the Miraj, Muhammad is said to have toured Heaven and Hell, and spoken with earlier prophets, such as Abraham, Moses, and Jesus.
Muslims believe that the Dome of the Rock is the site from which Muhammad ascended to Heaven." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad

But what does this have to do with the current political situation of how Israel deals with its occupied territories?

8. JEWS PRAY FACING JERUSALEM; MUSLIMS FACE MECCA. IF THEY ARE BETWEEN THE TWO CITIES, MUSLIMS PRAY FACING MECCA, WITH THEIR BACKS TO JERUSALEM;

So???

9. IN 1948, ARAB LEADERS URGED THEIR PEOPLE TO LEAVE, PROMISING TO CLEANSE THE LAND OF JEWISH PRESENCE. 68% OF THEM FLED WITHOUT EVER SETTING EYES ON AN ISRAELI SOLDIER;

Now this is such an interesting claim. I've never heard this. Most of the literature says that about 700,000 people were made refugees on Israeli Independence Day/Al-Nakba (the catastrophe). But you're saying these people left because the Arab govenrments told them they would start the war.

So you think that means the Arab leaders wanted these people to leave their land and homes and not ever come back? If they warned them about the fighting and told them to leave so as to not get killed, that's one thing, but telling them to leave and they don't have the right to return is another. The Arab leaders did not make these people into refugees. They told them to get out during the war, so they could come back to their homes, alive.

10. VIRTUALLY THE ENTIRE JEWISH POPULATION OF MUSLIM COUNTRIES HAD TO FLEE AS THE RESULT OF VIOLENCE AND POGROMS;

Yes. This is true.

11. SOME 630,000 ARABS LEFT ISRAEL IN 1948, WHILE CLOSE TO A MILLION JEWS WERE FORCED TO LEAVE THE MUSLIM COUNTRIES.

"the 1948 Arab-Israeli War that erupted following the invasion of neighbouring Arab states, resulted in the flight or expulsion of an estimated 700,000 Palestinian refugees, [4] and the abandonment and destruction of up to 418 Palestinian villages." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba_day

I don't know how many Jews had to leave Arab countries.

12. IN SPITE OF THE VAST TERRITORIES AT THEIR DISPOSAL, ARAB REFUGESS WERE DELIBERATELY PREVENTED FROM ASSIMILATING INTO THEIR HOST COUNTRIES. OF 100 MILLION REFUGEES FOLLOWING WORLD WAR 2, THEY ARE THE ONLY GROUP TO HAVE NEVER INTEGRATED WITH THEIR CORELIGIONISTS. MOST OF THE JEWISH REFUGEES FROM EUROPE AND ARAB LANDS WERE SETTLED IN ISRAEL, A COUNTRY NO LARGER THAN NEW JERSEY.

This is true. Shame on Lebanon and all the others.

13. THERE ARE 22 MUSLIM COUNTRIES, NOT COUNTING PALESTINE. THERE IS ONLY ONE JEWISH STATE. ARABS STARTED ALL FIVE WARS A GAINST ISRAEL, AND LOST EVERY ONE OF THEM;

Some say Hizballah won this one. Israel certainly didn't win.
So are you saying that Israel is justified in treating its Palestinian population the way it does, becauase the Arab countries started all the wars against Israel?? That doesn't seem to make sense.

14. FATAH AND HAMAS CONSTITUTIONS STILL CALL FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL. ISRAEL CEDED MOST OF THE WEST BANK AND ALL OF GAZA TO THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY, AND EVEN PROVIDED IT WITH ARMS;

Israel has ceded most of the West Bank to the Palestinian Authority? How much land are we talking about here? These are small places. And there are still too many Israeli settlements and not enough land for the Palestinians? When it all used to be their's and now they have practically nothing, it seems that the least Israel can do is give them all of West Bank and Gaza. But the details of how much land and where these boundaries should be drawn is the difficult work of these peace negotiations that has to be continued now.

I should definately get more stats to show how much land is in the West Bank and how much of it goes to the Palestinians.

15. DURING THE JORDANIAN OCCUPATION, JEWISH HOLY SITES WERE VANDALIZED AND WERE OFF LIMITS TO JEWS. UNDER ISRAELI RULE, ALL MUSLIM AND CHRISTIAN HOLY SITES ARE ACCESSIBLE TO ALL FAITHS;

Yes, and unfortunately, people who live in Arab countries cannot visit these sites becasue their govnerments won't let them. But that's not Israel's fault.

16. OUT OF 175 UNITED NATIONS SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTIONS UP TO 1990,
97 WERE AGAINST ISRAEL; OUT OF 690 GENERAL ASSEMBLY RESOLUTIONS, 429 WERE AGAINST ISRAEL;

So the international community recognizes the crimes and illegal violations of the Israeli government. Shouldn't the U.S.?

17 was missing???

18. THE U.N. WAS SILENT WHEN THE JORDANIANS DESTROYED 58 SYNAGOGUES IN THE OLD CITY OF JERUSALEM. IT REMAINED SILENT WHILE JORDAN SYSTEMATICALLY DESECRATED THE ANCIENT JEWISH CEMETERY ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES, AN D IT REMAINED SILENT WHEN JORDAN ENFORCED APARTHEID LAWS PREVENTING JEWS FROM ACCESSING THE TEMPLE MOUNT AND WESTERN WALL.

Okay. Should I start to list the Israeli crimes?? There isn't enough room here.